How accessible are your films Mike? We can't find them anywhere.

MK- Yes, I am such a lousy PR person, and yeah, the Filmmakers Co-op, the Filmmakers Cooperative in New York, they're actually the ones who got this grant to make the restoration of "Sins of the Fleshapoids" but yeah it's funny, yeah I'm gonna send them more of my stuff. But sometimes places they ask me, and they know of my work and of my brother's work, they contact me about it. I could never sell my pictures myself. I usually get contacted...sometimes film festivals or small odd festivals like... I was at the Olympia Film Festival and they sent my brother over and me and we had three shows, 8mm, 16mm, and video. It was a three night event during their festival. That was about two weeks ago. So every once in a while they pop up here and there every so often...I know though they aren't that accessible. Sorry about that....Then there are opportunities like here, and they ask me to come and I'm obliged....There was one weird one in Korea. They were gonna send my brother and I to go. I would have went but then some other things came in the way so it's like that kind of a thing. I don't do much PR on that kind of thing or myself. But the Co-op does have some of our work, my brother's and mine. I've gotta leave some more stuff with them. Usually it's just word of mouth, or they manage to contact me and allow me to have a show and then I go and rummage through the closet and find some pictures....So, sorry about that.

So, do you and your brother work together on projects any longer?

MK-We don't work together. We share equipment. He's got his ideas; I've got mine. You know, he works on what he does; I work on what I do. We usually just show each other afterwards. But no, he's got his own methods and his own ways and we share equipment. That's about it. But we used to work together in 8mm. We take turns doing scenes. Shooting sequences, but during out last 8mm films we each had our own projects, and then it remained that way, so yeah we don't work together, but sometimes we work on shows together cause it's like a novelty- you know twins, movies by twins. When we began to have shows years ago, that is how we were advertised, "The Kuchar Brothers".

Do you do any teaching in San Francisco with George during the summers?

MK-Actually George does. He's been doing that going on fifteen years. He has three classes he does. He crams them all in one day. Get's them over with in one day. It's a production class. It's at an arts school, a fine arts school. I mean ya know the camera is just like another tool. You can go paint a sculpture, or it's like this self-motivated type of impulses. I did it. Sometimes I've been asked to do a course, and I've done a few. I've done two there and sometimes I've been asked to do a few, but no steady, nothing steady as far as teaching goes. But he's been doing it steady at the San Francisco Art Institute. I did this class in New York where I did the "Splatter Movie" with this small little film society that offers classes. I did a course. It was a dramatic narrative course and we all made a picture together, 16mm. That was the splatter movie.

So how did you decide to do a splatter film?

MK-I wanted to do it, and I was mischievous and all and the cast was kind of sexy. The students were kind of sexy. So I said, oh they'll be good for these kind of pictures but I had to bring some guest stars from the outside some of our stabler performers, bring them in and loosen everybody up. It turned out well. It turned out well. It's fun, you know when you do those kind of pictures. You've got to pull out all of the stops. Yeah, special effects were required, and I did them. It takes a certain amount of creative ingenuity to think of these things and they appreciated it. They liked it and then I did some others. Some New School classes. But all this is just spin-off from just doing my own work. Then I guess sometimes the word goes around and you get notoriety or whatever, and they've heard of you or whatever and for some reason you are respected. (laughter)

What project were you purely a hired gun for, as cinematographer?

Yeah, in Germany- I went there a few times. It was good. There was this guy, kind of sensational, kind of a character, he likes to do scandalous work, but he gets funding, big grants from Germany. He knows of my work, and he once did a documentary on my brother and I and so he hired me to shoot some of his pictures which you know the budgets for me were very big. Like 160,000 dollars. I can't imagine. But it would be like a paying job, and it was a good job. It wasn't just paint by numbers, I was able to contribute a little, and he treated me real well, but I couldn't stand the way he treated his cast and crew and well, I did that a few times, and well you just do your own work and every once in a while people hear about you and hire you and whatever. It was good. I like the actors. I made friends with them, and I liked being behind the camera. It got keeping me behind the camera. We were shooting 16mm, but with glamorous cameras that I can't afford. One was an Aton, German made, and they were all sound cameras. Thousands and thousands of dollars. He gave me the luxury of being camera assistant to load those things, and it was good. But these are just slaps on the back and side projects. Nothing I was aiming for in my life, but you know grab it when it comes and try to help people out on their pictures, and I like trying to put what they want up on the screen, give it feeling hopefully.

Have you ever shot on 35mm?

No, I have never done that, was never asked to. But boy those cameras are big. I can't ever carry a 16mm camera. I'm too old now. I like the video cameras now. They're plastic and mylar. Those 16mm cameras, even they are too big. (laughter) Too heavy, and metal, you do that when you are young. 35mm, I don't think that will ever come. If it does, good, if it doesn't, I don't care.

Tell me about the documentary projects that you have worked on...

That was a weird one, it had some guy whose friend was dying, and then people would come to the place where he was dying, and I'd meet them they'd take me places and show me their art work and all. It was weird. It got real weird. (laughter) People taking me to their places to show me their etchings and all. But it turned out well. I just did it. It's strange. It's media-mystic. Sometimes making pictures is like they were meant to be made, and you go with it. It's strange. Everything is synchronized, and you've got the go ahead. Just go with it. They build themselves. Another one I did about people showing me their artwork and their processes. It depends. I make pictures. I never know what my next picture is going to be. It's about what influences me and what's around me and who I meet. Sometimes you can't make a pictures until you meet somebody, and then you meet these kind of people, and you think they are good for these kind of pictures where and now is the time to make them. Or you go to a place and realize that you can make the kind of picture you really wanted to now because I found the area, and I can feel it. I can work. You know when it's there you grab it, and you use it. You grab it before you lose it- before life goes on and things change and people too. Do it with whatever you have. Do it while it's there. The moment and the willing and that 's the way it is.

How much drawing and artwork do you do currently?

I've been doing a lot in the last year. In the summer a lot. The older woman in "The Fornicators", she commissioned me to do a watercolor and give me five hundred dollars or something. And that was very sweet of her, and I didn't want to do just one. I wanted her to have her choice and so I did two. And them some big gallery called and the guy who was curating the show knew of my work, and I had a closet full of drawings I was doing and sometimes I get into making pictures and sometimes I get into drawing and when I do I really get into it and I produce these drawings and I don't know what for. I'm just doing them, just to see. It's just the materialation the materializing of mental pictures. If you can do it on a surface, whether it's a screen or a paper. It's that kind of thing to see if you can get it together or project it out and make it tangible. So yeah, I did a lot of drawings this year. It was good. Then this gallery called and validated it. Sometimes I wonder what am I doing, but it seemed like people had interest in it, and they are hanging onto it so I don't know maybe something will happen. They hung up and sold, so I do enjoy drawing. Making pictures and taking still pictures and drawing or writing. It's all trying to sort things out and trying to express yourself and trying to invent something. You just choose what medium you want. Like tonight I was choosing cameras and other times I draw. It's impulse. They keep you busy, get you involved. It's that kind of a thing.

Have you ever worked with Mike Diana as far as drawing or painting goes or just in your movies?

No, we just have something in common. He drew. I drew. So we talked.

Do you think he is a good actor?

He's good for certain things. Some people are good, and hopefully we can see what they are good at. Nobody is trained, or whatever, but people have certain qualities and people have certain things that they are workable and so I put him in certain movies, but they are always a certain kind of movie. They are a certain kind of thing because I see what he can do and what I can do further with editing and how I photograph it. The good thing about him is that he is willing and he is open to it.

Do you edit all of your films?

Yeah, I edit them all. I totally do the whole process. One thing I find good about it is that it will work a little better. I have a good idea about what I want. I know what I want, and I work it out, and if I do it all, it will come closer to what it is or have a certain signature, and it also helps you from having to explain to people what you want. Sometimes I am feeling it out myself. How can I explain it to someone else who is working camera or cutting the picture? I wouldn't give it to any body else. I have to work it out. I have to mold it. I have to do it. The same like when you do a painting. It's like saying, "Hey I did the tree trunk. Would you do the leaves?" (laughter) I mean I wouldn't give the thing over. I also enjoy all the stages of making a picture. They are all very involving and interesting. The editing, the photography of it, the directing of it, the writing of it, all of those aspects are interesting, and I wouldn't want to be robbed of that challenge of doing it, and it may have more of a signature and more personality maybe... hopefully. It depends what you feel your limitations are. You may bite more off than you can chew, but it doesn't matter.

What do you edit on?

Well, this picture ("Sins of the Fleshapoids") I edited on a twelve dollar splicer. It was glue splices. It was all edited at home on the kitchen table. I prefer to edit at home. With the video I have the equipment at home. I edit at home. Things like that.

Do you prefer to shoot on film or on video?

It doesn't matter to me. I don't care. What happens is whatever is available. What happens to be available at the moment. What I find now days is that film, the prices have gone way way up! I can't possibly afford it. I find have trouble paying the rent never mind buying film and also I remember what I used to pay to process film and develop it and what they are asking for now is shocking. So it's beyond my budget. Frankly I've done a lot of film. I've done many many films and I find no difference actually. You get the same kind of effect. It doesn't matter to me. I do the best I can with whatever medium I am working in. I try to do the best I can, fulfill as best I can what the initial inspiration was. Whatever medium it is, that includes whether it's drawings I'm doing or whatever. So it does bug me or bother me what medium I shoot on.

Do you have other jobs or strictly your film and artwork?

Yeah, I do part time things. I work at Milenium in New York which is put up by the arts councils to be of service for people making low budget films in Super 8. 16mm, whatever. I'm a projectionist there and give out equipment and sign out members who are working on their projects. I am a projectionist there, and that is always fun because I get to see what people are doing and meet other filmmakers and so it keeps me busy. I think I'm a good projectionist. I wouldn't want my movies out of focus. So I've been doing that whenever I'm in New York, which is fall or winter, and it gives me some pocket money, and then in California I stay with my brother, and I've got a room there and he's got a bunch of rooms, and I help pay the rent and take care of the joint, and he goes on vacation, and it's been going on like that for years. So how I've made it this far. I guess I'll go on. Maybe social security will in a couple years and that'll be something that'll help.

When you and George first started out, how did you get your films shown?

Here's the thing. If someone asks you, "Hey we're going to have a little screening. Would you bring your picture?" Then bring it! You never know who's there. You never know where it leads. Someone will say to you.....it's for exposure. Be open to it because you never know where it's going to lead. We never know what we make. We just try to have fun with it, and also we believe in it and try our best, but who the hell knows....but if someone asks, maybe it's a masterpiece, who knows....or maybe it's not, but if someone asks you to play it, just go over and show it and you never know what happens then. That's sort of the story with my brother and I. We just went over to some loft where painters were getting together and sculptors, and they were getting some ideas, and they were picking up cameras and trying to see if they could get their visions on film. Then they'd go and share it, and it was at this loft, and it was nice. It was like a beatnik atmosphere and whatever, and then there was this movement going on where people were organizing a theatre where people would go and show these type of pictures and in the early sixties this was unusual because it was pictures being made by individuals and not studio productions- by individuals making films for their own reasons. The themes were different and they didn't have any restrictions and it was kind of a bohemians Ville, and someone invited my brother and I to show there, and there was a writer / film critic from the Village Voice who like the work a lot, and he told us about the theatre they were opening to show these type of pictures, andhe asked if we'd like a show, and we said, "yeah", and we had all these movies that we had already been making, and then he wrote this big article praising the stuff, and that's how it started. That's all we could do- just make the work and all, and if somebody wanted to show it or if there was a chance that it would screen, you never know. Show it, and you never know who sees it and where it leads from there. The thing is, don't worry. Just try to have fun making it. It was an adventure and fun for us, and if nothing happens, we didn't really lose anything because it was an adventure for us to make them. And if we don't spend too much money on it, and nothing happens, then it isn't that much of a tragedy because we aren't completely bankrupt. You know......it's that kind of a thing.

What are your current projects?

Well, I just finished the "Pagan's and Christians" picture, and no, I don't....I have a line drawing I started and want to finish. I have a couple other things, I did a poster for some porno tape that they wanted me to do the poster for, and I had a couple assignments but I did another drawing and I finished that....who knows.