>>
So, do you and your brother work together
on projects any longer?
We
don't work together. We share equipment. He's got his ideas;
I've got mine. You know, he works on what he does; I work on
what I do. We usually just show each other afterwards. But no,
he's got his own methods and his own ways and we share equipment.
That's about it. But we used to work together in 8mm. We take
turns doing scenes. Shooting sequences, but during out last
8mm films we each had our own projects, and then it remained
that way, so yeah we don't work together, but sometimes we work
on shows together cause it's like a novelty- you know twins,
movies by twins. When we began to have shows years ago, that
is how we were advertised, "The Kuchar Brothers".
>> Do you do any teaching in San Francisco with
George during the summers?
Actually
George does. He's been doing that going on fifteen years. He
has three classes he does. He crams them all in one day. Get's
them over with in one day. It's a production class. It's at
an arts school, a fine arts school. I mean ya know the camera
is just like another tool. You can go paint a sculpture, or
it's like this self-motivated type of impulses. I did it. Sometimes
I've been asked to do a course, and I've done a few. I've done
two there and sometimes I've been asked to do a few, but no
steady, nothing steady as far as teaching goes. But he's been
doing it steady at the San Francisco Art Institute. I did this
class in New York where I did the "Splatter Movie"
with this small little film society that offers classes. I did
a course. It was a dramatic narrative course and we all made
a picture together, 16mm. That was the splatter movie.
>> So how did you decide to do a splatter film?
I
wanted to do it, and I was mischievous and all and the cast
was kind of sexy. The students were kind of sexy. So I said,
oh they'll be good for these kind of pictures but I had to bring
some guest stars from the outside some of our stabler performers,
bring them in and loosen everybody up. It turned out well. It
turned out well. It's fun, you know when you do those kind of
pictures. You've got to pull out all of the stops. Yeah, special
effects were required, and I did them. It takes a certain amount
of creative ingenuity to think of these things and they appreciated
it. They liked it and then I did some others. Some New School
classes. But all this is just spin-off from just doing my own
work. Then I guess sometimes the word goes around and you get
notoriety or whatever, and they've heard of you or whatever
and for some reason you are respected. (laughter)
>> What project were you purely a hired gun for,
as cinematographer?
Yeah,
in Germany- I went there a few times. It was good. There was
this guy, kind of sensational, kind of a character, he likes
to do scandalous work, but he gets funding, big grants from
Germany. He knows of my work, and he once did a documentary
on my brother and I and so he hired me to shoot some of his
pictures which you know the budgets for me were very big. Like
160,000 dollars. I can't imagine. But it would be like a paying
job, and it was a good job. It wasn't just paint by numbers,
I was able to contribute a little, and he treated me real well,
but I couldn't stand the way he treated his cast and crew and
well, I did that a few times, and well you just do your own
work and every once in a while people hear about you and hire
you and whatever. It was good. I like the actors. I made friends
with them, and I liked being behind the camera. It got keeping
me behind the camera. We were shooting 16mm, but with glamorous
cameras that I can't afford. One was an Aton, German made, and
they were all sound cameras. Thousands and thousands of dollars.
He gave me the luxury of being camera assistant to load those
things, and it was good. But these are just slaps on the back
and side projects. Nothing I was aiming for in my life, but
you know grab it when it comes and try to help people out on
their pictures, and I like trying to put what they want up on
the screen, give it feeling hopefully.
>> Have you ever shot on 35mm?
No,
I have never done that, was never asked to. But boy those cameras
are big. I can't ever carry a 16mm camera. I'm too old now.
I like the video cameras now. They're plastic and mylar. Those
16mm cameras, even they are too big. (laughter) Too heavy, and
metal, you do that when you are young. 35mm, I don't think that
will ever come. If it does, good, if it doesn't, I don't care.
>> Tell me about the documentary projects that
you have worked on...
That
was a weird one, it had some guy whose friend was dying, and
then people would come to the place where he was dying, and
I'd meet them they'd take me places and show me their art work
and all. It was weird. It got real weird. (laughter) People
taking me to their places to show me their etchings and all.
But it turned out well. I just did it. It's strange. It's media-mystic.
Sometimes making pictures is like they were meant to be made,
and you go with it. It's strange. Everything is synchronized,
and you've got the go ahead. Just go with it. They build themselves.
Another one I did about people showing me their artwork and
their processes. It depends. I make pictures. I never know what
my next picture is going to be. It's about what influences me
and what's around me and who I meet. Sometimes you can't make
a pictures until you meet somebody, and then you meet these
kind of people, and you think they are good for these kind of
pictures where and now is the time to make them. Or you go to
a place and realize that you can make the kind of picture you
really wanted to now because I found the area, and I can feel
it. I can work. You know when it's there you grab it, and you
use it. You grab it before you lose it- before life goes on
and things change and people too. Do it with whatever you have.
Do it while it's there. The moment and the willing and that
's the way it is.
>> How much drawing and artwork do you do currently?
I've
been doing a lot in the last year. In the summer a lot. The
older woman in "The Fornicators", she commissioned
me to do a watercolor and give me five hundred dollars or something.
And that was very sweet of her, and I didn't want to do just
one. I wanted her to have her choice and so I did two. And them
some big gallery called and the guy who was curating the show
knew of my work, and I had a closet full of drawings I was doing
and sometimes I get into making pictures and sometimes I get
into drawing and when I do I really get into it and I produce
these drawings and I don't know what for. I'm just doing them,
just to see. It's just the materialation the materializing of
mental pictures. If you can do it on a surface, whether it's
a screen or a paper. It's that kind of thing to see if you can
get it together or project it out and make it tangible. So yeah,
I did a lot of drawings this year. It was good. Then this gallery
called and validated it. Sometimes I wonder what am I doing,
but it seemed like people had interest in it, and they are hanging
onto it so I don't know maybe something will happen. They hung
up and sold, so I do enjoy drawing. Making pictures and taking
still pictures and drawing or writing. It's all trying to sort
things out and trying to express yourself and trying to invent
something. You just choose what medium you want. Like tonight
I was choosing cameras and other times I draw. It's impulse.
They keep you busy, get you involved. It's that kind of a thing.
>> Have you ever worked with Mike Diana as far
as drawing or painting goes or just in your movies?
No,
we just have something in common. He drew. I drew. So we talked.
>> Do you think he is a good actor?
He's
good for certain things. Some people are good, and hopefully
we can see what they are good at. Nobody is trained, or whatever,
but people have certain qualities and people have certain things
that they are workable and so I put him in certain movies, but
they are always a certain kind of movie. They are a certain
kind of thing because I see what he can do and what I can do
further with editing and how I photograph it. The good thing
about him is that he is willing and he is open to it.
>> Do you edit all of your films?
Yeah,
I edit them all. I totally do the whole process. One thing I
find good about it is that it will work a little better. I have
a good idea about what I want. I know what I want, and I work
it out, and if I do it all, it will come closer to what it is
or have a certain signature, and it also helps you from having
to explain to people what you want. Sometimes I am feeling it
out myself. How can I explain it to someone else who is working
camera or cutting the picture? I wouldn't give it to any body
else. I have to work it out. I have to mold it. I have to do
it. The same like when you do a painting. It's like saying,
"Hey I did the tree trunk. Would you do the leaves?"
(laughter) I mean I wouldn't give the thing over. I also enjoy
all the stages of making a picture. They are all very involving
and interesting. The editing, the photography of it, the directing
of it, the writing of it, all of those aspects are interesting,
and I wouldn't want to be robbed of that challenge of doing
it, and it may have more of a signature and more personality
maybe... hopefully. It depends what you feel your limitations
are. You may bite more off than you can chew, but it doesn't
matter.
>> What do you edit on?
Well,
this picture ("Sins of the Fleshapoids") I edited
on a twelve dollar splicer. It was glue splices. It was all
edited at home on the kitchen table. I prefer to edit at home.
With the video I have the equipment at home. I edit at home.
Things like that.
>> Do you prefer to shoot on film or on video?
It
doesn't matter to me. I don't care. What happens is whatever
is available. What happens to be available at the moment. What
I find now days is that film, the prices have gone way way up!
I can't possibly afford it. I find have trouble paying the rent
never mind buying film and also I remember what I used to pay
to process film and develop it and what they are asking for
now is shocking. So it's beyond my budget. Frankly I've done
a lot of film. I've done many many films and I find no difference
actually. You get the same kind of effect. It doesn't matter
to me. I do the best I can with whatever medium I am working
in. I try to do the best I can, fulfill as best I can what the
initial inspiration was. Whatever medium it is, that includes
whether it's drawings I'm doing or whatever. So it does bug
me or bother me what medium I shoot on.
>> Do you have other jobs or strictly your film
and artwork?
Yeah,
I do part time things. I work at Milenium in New York which
is put up by the arts councils to be of service for people making
low budget films in Super 8. 16mm, whatever. I'm a projectionist
there and give out equipment and sign out members who are working
on their projects. I am a projectionist there, and that is always
fun because I get to see what people are doing and meet other
filmmakers and so it keeps me busy. I think I'm a good projectionist.
I wouldn't want my movies out of focus. So I've been doing that
whenever I'm in New York, which is fall or winter, and it gives
me some pocket money, and then in California I stay with my
brother, and I've got a room there and he's got a bunch of rooms,
and I help pay the rent and take care of the joint, and he goes
on vacation, and it's been going on like that for years. So
how I've made it this far. I guess I'll go on. Maybe social
security will in a couple years and that'll be something that'll
help.
>> When you and George first started out, how
did you get your films shown?
Here's
the thing. If someone asks you, "Hey we're going to have
a little screening. Would you bring your picture?" Then
bring it! You never know who's there. You never know where it
leads. Someone will say to you.....it's for exposure. Be open
to it because you never know where it's going to lead. We never
know what we make. We just try to have fun with it, and also
we believe in it and try our best, but who the hell knows....but
if someone asks, maybe it's a masterpiece, who knows....or maybe
it's not, but if someone asks you to play it, just go over and
show it and you never know what happens then. That's sort of
the story with my brother and I. We just went over to some loft
where painters were getting together and sculptors, and they
were getting some ideas, and they were picking up cameras and
trying to see if they could get their visions on film. Then
they'd go and share it, and it was at this loft, and it was
nice. It was like a beatnik atmosphere and whatever, and then
there was this movement going on where people were organizing
a theatre where people would go and show these type of pictures
and in the early sixties this was unusual because it was pictures
being made by individuals and not studio productions- by individuals
making films for their own reasons. The themes were different
and they didn't have any restrictions and it was kind of a bohemians
Ville, and someone invited my brother and I to show there, and
there was a writer / film critic from the Village Voice who
like the work a lot, and he told us about the theatre they were
opening to show these type of pictures, andhe asked if we'd
like a show, and we said, "yeah", and we had all these
movies that we had already been making, and then he wrote this
big article praising the stuff, and that's how it started. That's
all we could do- just make the work and all, and if somebody
wanted to show it or if there was a chance that it would screen,
you never know. Show it, and you never know who sees it and
where it leads from there. The thing is, don't worry. Just try
to have fun making it. It was an adventure and fun for us, and
if nothing happens, we didn't really lose anything because it
was an adventure for us to make them. And if we don't spend
too much money on it, and nothing happens, then it isn't that
much of a tragedy because we aren't completely bankrupt. You
know......it's that kind of a thing.
>> What are your current projects?
Well,
I just finished the "Pagan's and Christians" picture,
and no, I don't....I have a line drawing I started and want
to finish. I have a couple other things, I did a poster for
some porno tape that they wanted me to do the poster for, and
I had a couple assignments but I did another drawing and I finished
that....who knows.
>> Have you ever shot porno before?
Once,
well you always leave yourself open, somebody approached me
and wanted me to be the cinematographer for it, but it was a
horrible experience. It was so uncontrolled. The so-called director
had never made a picture before and you know they get ready
to do a scene and you ask, "What is going to happen because
I want to know where to put the camera?" It was a horrible
experience, totally horrible. Nothing came of it, and he wanted
help with the editing, and I knew I wasn't going to get paid,
and I knew it was a bad kind of a thing, and it was very....I
said okay I'll give you a crash course on editing. I'm not going
to edit it for you....and I said make a VHS copy of thing, and
so I showed him the ropes and gave him some tips in editing,
and he forgot to take home the VHS tape so you know what I did
is I kept some of it, and I used some of it. I salvaged some
of it and used some of the footage in "Pagans and Christians".
Well, it's my work...and the picture never got made. Two days
of shooting and all of this stuff, but it never got made. But
then there is you leave yourself open, he meant well, but the
whole thing fell apart. Sometimes you get involved with other
people and you really get involved in fiascos, so you stick
with oneselves own work...but then again you leave yourself
open also. I mean if anyone asks me to do anything, I do it
if it's not too draining on me.
>> Have you ever shot any industrials / commercials
/ etc?
No,
I have not.
>> Would you if you were asked to?
Yeah,
I would do it. I'm in the phone book. I would do it. Like I
said before, I don't need them. If I got a picture to make I
do it. I won't wait around and try to sell the idea. Most likely
you can't....you gotta go to committees and....though I'd be
game for it. I've been cinematographers for others...mostly
people that knew me and I knew them, but no. My brothers been
in a couple. Acted in them. We know people in the industry,
well they know about us. I think it's because they say, that's
your thing, and that's their thing, you have your own kind of
pictures and they know it, and they have their own kind of pictures.
Like that guy Todd Solondz....He's a fan of George and I. We
know John Waters. I met him at a party. He said "Sins of
the Fleshapoids" inspired him to finish "Pink Flamingos".
I was very flattered to hear that. I love his work. I love those
16mm movies. Those Baltimore pictures in 16mm. Those are the
masterpieces.
>> What film makers / actors inspired you as a
child?
Well,
I like Errol Flynn. I used to know Paul Bartel...he used to
make 16mm pictures...he made this one who the star in it was
Donna Mills. This was before she got, like "Naughty Nurses"
or something. She was in it. We shared a room together at a
film festival or whatever and it was underground 16mm films
categorized as underground, I had a student in the Art Institute
and he went on to make one of Divine's last pictures, with Karen
Black in it....He produced it. Divine was playing a cop in it,
kind of a psychopathic serial killer picture, I think there
was a clown in it..."Out of the Dark" or something....He
produced that. We also know the brothers, Nicolas Cage's brother
who went to the art institute. He's put my brother in some movies,
three brothers, the older one writes plays...it's all part of
the picture making people...it all blends together.
>> What advice do you have for people today making
underground movies and trying to get them shown out there?
Just
make the picture. Do it because you have to. Do it with what
you have, and you make it, and then who knows what is going
to happen afterwards. But nothing will if you don't make it.
Something might come of it and something might not, but you
know if you don't go broke doing it and you had some fun and
you learn something, then it wasn't a total waste (laughter).
As for pushing, I myself can't push myself. I feel like Dr.
Frankenstein. Maybe I've made horrible monsters and now I'm
going push them on people. At premieres and screenings I'm right
near the exit door....inside we release it the best we can.
You know if you got the choice on whether to make a picture
or not, just don't make them (laughter). But if you do, just
make it and if anything will happen then it might happen because
you made it but the thing is, make it available if somebody
asks you to show it or if you have an opportunity to show it.
Like I said you never know who is there and something they may
want to put it in another screening or some curator for some
joint or something. Maybe we make a masterpiece and maybe we
don't and make an atrocity or just a bomb.
>> What films / videos that you have made do you
like the best?
Well,
they are all my children. It just depends. Sometimes you look
in the mirror- you hate yourself and you hate the pictures.
Sometimes you are around them too much that you can't see clearly
or you just have to get away from them. And then you see them
months later or years later or you are forced to look at them,
and they've got their own personality. To tell you the truth
I don't know. I do the best I can with every picture and each
one was motivated for a certain reason, and they have that reason
and probably I won't be able to make it again because that reason
is gone. So whatever that reason is, it is on the picture. So
I leave it alone and that is it. It's that way. I don't really
have a favorite, and I also like this one and then months later
I like this ne...sometimes maybe I don't feel well, and I don't
like any of the stuff. You know because they are- basically
they are all you or all me. It depends how you feel about yourself.
If you detach yourself because you tried to make it speak. I
could never put myself in my pictures because they are all about
me in a way. That would really topple, tip over the boat. So
I get other people to play the characters. But they are all
me really. They are my impulses, my plots, whatever- my reactions
of people that I'm using. My brother puts himself in his own
pictures. He doesn't mind, but I can't.
>> What do you think about the film "Thundercrack"
that George is in?
It's
good. It's an odd thing. It's really odd. That found an outlet
in the midnight movies. It was originally made by an ex-student.
A real party boy. He died of AIDS. He got consumed. He was a
sex fiend. I mean that in a good way. But anyway he loved pornography,
and he loved my brother's writing and what. My brother over-wrote.
It's far too long and it's there's not enough. Kurt tried to
sell it in the pornography market, and there was too much talking,
and you didn't make black and white pornography films, you made
color and so it was like this two and a half hour dinosaur.
The main actress in it, she's good. I'd never use her, she's
a little too.... Well, I used her once but the actors are probably....my
brother and I....there wasn't motivation. I couldn't even figure
it out myself. Also my message didn't work and anyway she liked
the writing, this older women she liked the writing and she
wanted to be in this picture. She was very good in it. But it
eventually found it's place in the midnight movie circuit, and
it's got a following, a cult following...they finally restored
the 2.5 hour version of it. They used to cut it out to try to
adapt to try to fit it into other markets but yeah.....he made
pictures. Kurt McDowell made his own pictures, 16mm claustrophobic
as hell but all full of these erotic exploits, he puts himself
in the pictures and boy, it's like being stuck in a closet with
this guy and no holds barred, but you know but why now, that's
okay. Somebody's gotta make these type of movies. Sometimes
they get kind of personal...
>> What are your favorite films currently that
you have seen?
I'm
a big Sci-fi fan. I like Sci-fi movies, from the 50's and whatever,
all kinds of stuff. There are all kinds of movies with those
elements. I do like those Hollywood pictures from the 50's.
They always had this sort of glamour and style. It was kind
of evident and I like the process. Sometimes I make it evident
in my pictures and I'm fond of it. I like it. I like the stars.
I like to find my own stars and build them up in the same way
if I can. But there are all sorts of pictures that have elements
in them, and you see possibilities and then you take it a step
further. There's a certain language you speak with film that
we somehow sort of all understand when you see it up on the
screen. I guess we all sort of use it or use it for the means
or something like that. I don't go to see movies at the movie
theatres now. I pick up DVD's and VHS. I have my own collection
and stuff which I like looking at again and again, just like
I have a library of books and things.
>> What kind of music do you listen to?
I
like some modern symphonies, I like classical. Modern symphonies.
Stuff like that, I like impressionists, orchestra type music.
I've always been a big fan of that, always liked that kind of
stuff. Like the stuff you hear in my films. We've got hundreds....my
brother and I have collected records for years. We've got tons
of LP's. Over the years it all piles up. It's kind of like this
guerilla moviemaking. You do everything you can to get the picture
on the screen and to score it and to do whatever you can to
make the damn thing work or watchable (laughter). Like in the
video "Face the Night" , I didn't have a title for
the picture. Sometimes I go on a psychic binge when I get towards
the end of the picture and I think I'm gonna go to the budget
bin, and I'm going to pick out some budget CD but it's on a
psychic ride, but I'm into the picture so I feel that it is
often is the case that I'm picking out things unknowingly that
will hit the bill. In that instance, I would never listen to
this myself, I buy orchestral works, but they are songs I hear,
and it has this melancholy thing, and it says, "I face
the night" and I heard "Face the Night", and
it's the theme song for my picture. The other ones, I see little
episodes and I hear the bridge music I need to bridge this shot
into hear. It's kind of like a psychic kind of thing really,
it's a channeling. I think anything when you are in a creative
endevour you are channeling and flow with it and there are signs.
People will come and say they want to be in your picture and
I see it as a sign. Let's get to work. I mean they are telling
me something. You follow it. The road is now open and you are
able to make this picture. It's like they are the first signpost
and now go with it. And of course somehow everything falls together
and if you are on the right track usually there is a need and
the need makes it happen. Of course there are signs that we
have to be aware of to like give up, it's like a no go, it's
like getting tough. This picture will kill you. Go. Stop. But
I believe fully that they are the signposts. I mean I have stories
that I wrote with my brother and I tell of strange things that
people out of the blue will tell you something when they aren't
even interested in something but they are right. It's like these
guardian angels filter through them, and then you forget to
throw something away and you need one shot later, and then you
look, and you see in a paper bag- there is the shot that you
need- that will make the picture worth. Where as while you are
editing all the outtakes I throw away. I think, "Why did
I save this?" Somehow I knew, but the thing wasn't planned.
You know what I mean. But it's also a strange, psychic, channeling,
and somehow the pictures are already made. They are on another
plane and physically now it is up to you to manipulate it physically
into a medium cause they are there and they are ready to come
out now, and there are people who are winding up to be in it,
and all that has been pent up inside of you is going to come
out and is given the road because everything is lined up to
do it, so that is what I found is interesting about making pictures.
This kind of style anyway. So be aware of it....
